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Character System Suggestions and Others

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Character System Suggestions and Others

Post  Ishida Gina on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:16 am

So this topic will be about the characters being made for the roleplay and anything else related to them.

First, the magicians. What are the incentives in making a magician character? Yes, there is a magic side plot going on, but the main problem is the setting. I see all the boards pointing to Academy City, but where's the rest of the world? I think there should be boards open for settings around the world.

Speaking of settings, I think some of the Academy City boards should be expanded on. For example, in "Other Distracts", I only see two sub-districts. Opening up sub-boards for the other distracts will create more clarity for those browsing the forums.

Secondly, the canon list. It's not so much about the list itself, but the maintenance of it. It's not updated often. If you guys are lacking mods in specific fields (updating, grading, etc.), why not open up a mod hiring application or choose someone to be a mod, someone that you know is already trustworthy and responsible? With more mods, updates can be made more often and you can delegate tasks between more people, creating overall less work for an individual mod.

Lastly, the Index guide. There's nothing wrong with it per say, but I do prefer a bit more clarity. For example, in the esper consideration guide, I see bolded headings that suggests restrictions and deterrence. But what if you are really adamant about making this type of character? There should be a complete separate paragraph as a REMINDER saying that you can still try to make these type of characters and it's up to the mods discretion if it should be approved or not.

Most of these restrictions and deterrences targets the personality. You want more happy people, etc. Ok, that's understandable. You will also allow exceptional profiles to occupy the very tragic type, if the character is well-made. Why not organize these personalities into a list? Of all the characters you approved, compile their names into a list, and summarize their personality. You can see what kind of personalities are occupied. Not only you, but the regular members can also see this list, so they know what personality to think of that isn't done yet. If I see no insane personality-type character on the list, then I know I can go ahead and make that personality character. It helps me think of what's done and what can be done.

Exact same thing can be done for factions. List the factions and summarize what's their goals are for everyone to see. People making a faction can then see what goals are not being focused on yet. I do agree with the reminders of joining an existing faction because of a possibility you won't get much RPs with the created faction. But, if the RPer has already discussed with other people who's gonna be eventually recruited, then you know for sure the faction will eventually be filled up. They can then plot with other RPers of how the faction will interact with other factions or individual people.

In terms of mind controlling abilities and the restriction, I think its just really downplaying the trust between RPer and RPer. For example, I would not mind having my character completely controlled. Fundamentally, a RPer should be discussing with another RPer the guideline of what is to happen within the topic. If they agree, the topic goes on. If they don't, the topic doesn't get made in the first place. Roleplays are done with the plot in mind, and I hope not with the thought of my character being the most unbeatable. I can extend this to seemingly overpowered abilities. Just let the creativity flow, and allow a person to create any power, no matter how ridiculous, as long as the mods suggests to them to put clear weaknesses.

Which comes to power level. Having 7 level 5 esper slots seems really restricting. Added to the fact that all of them are canonical characters. Sure, maybe there's satisfaction in possibly beating Accelerator, but I'd rather have more satisfaction beating an original character of a similar power level. I want to see the creativity and effort put into this original character befitting to be the strongest esper, because I want to see how this character acts, and what kind of power he/she has. If I know all the espers will be level 4s max, then the level 5 concept to original characters is meaningless in terms of originality, because there will never be a level 5 original esper.

Canonically, seven slots seems to be a good number for level 5s out of 1.8 million espers as per the scientist's predictions. But these scientists are humans that can make mistakes. Why not add some originality to the rules set in the To Aru universe? Why not an 8th, 9th and 10th slot for a level 5 esper? Or why not have the scientists make up a theoretical level 4.5s, where they are level 4 espers beyond the rest of the level 4s but not as significant as the level 5s?

In other words, give the original characters some chance in a field that a canonical character has pre-occupied. You can obviously compile a list of esper powers and set a limit to how many espers can have this power. For example, if you're set with Accelerator and Imagine Breaker being the rarest, then set the limit to one character occupying those powers (which Accelerator and Touma occupies those spots). If you want a powerful ability limited to two people, then do that. It can give you a basis of how many people deserves this power on a quantity perspective. Or maybe a better example is the personality. If you want more happy people, set that limit to 100 characters being happy. If you want less tragic people, set that limit to 10. Think of a ratio, and then look at your summarized personality list. See if there's a chance for someone to make a tragic character, and if the limits been reached, just tell them "oh we have enough tragic characters, we prefer you to make a happy character." This can be expanded to factions (oh we have enough of dark factions, we want more of a light-hearted faction) and esper abilities (oh we have enough of rare/ridiculous powers, and we want more common, lighter powers).

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Re: Character System Suggestions and Others

Post  Furuhashi Gou on Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:27 pm

Nice thread. I’ll give my opinion about a few points, if I may.

Yep, I personally believe that the focus on Academy City is killing the interest in Magicians even more. I mean, you need a proper explanation why your Magician came to Academy City when applying the profile. And of course the staff is kinda strict about those reasons behind that.
Then again most people simply believe that Espers are more interesting. Nearly everyone here created an Esper before making a Magician. Some even made a second Esper. That’s just how popular those are, even though they’re not as interesting as Magicians – something I sadly realised too late.

A globally based RP for the Magic Side would be nice, though. At least it’d open up a few more opportunities for them as well.


Looking at the board as it is, I need to say that there really is a need for mods to support the staff. We’re a small board, but somehow even then everything goes down once the mods aren’t active enough. Then on the other hand it’s difficult to find people that actually qualify. I mean, look at Index’ way of dealing with the evals or anything else within her territory. Finding someone who can work with the same standards is rather difficult.


About the mind control thing: There had been such a person – Shokuhou Misaki – once. But from what I’ve heard, even though the person had managed to gain the staff’s trust, everything went off into the wrong direction, building up the foundation of that ban.
I personally would never allow mind control or invisible/undodgeable attacks. Trust is something that can be broken quite often. This board’s history shows that quite well.


Mhh non canon factions are a difficult topic, though. It’d be cool to establish some of those, however, it isn’t easy. You need people interested in it and that’s where the problem comes from. Most people have their own ideas and the character limitations make it even more difficult to live everything out. Also there are many open slots that need to be filled, like the eternal need for Magicians or important canon characters.
At least that’s the problem in my eyes. If there was a list of what is needed urgently things may become easier, though.


Non canon Level 5s are actually possible from what I’ve been told. It’s just that you can’t start off as one, which is fully logical. Working yourself up to the top sounds somewhat fair. The Level 5s are the most powerful Espers after all and a big deal of a story device. Once slots for non canon ones would be opened the main interest would grow in that direction, like there is with Level 4s.
That 4.5 concept is actually established too. Let’s say that it’s equal the power level of a powerful Level 4, like Musujime Awaki, who is veeery close to becoming the number 8. Such roles can be taken by original characters, just like it happened in the case of your Gina~

Another challenge would be putting up by the Level 5’s ranking, as the non-canon Level 5s would have to be weaker than the other ones~

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Re: Character System Suggestions and Others

Post  Jack Nightingale on Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:56 am

Ohoho, those're some interesting ideas.

Expanding the setting, huh? That does sound quite fun, but it'd be difficult to implement it. Very difficult indeed. Everyone's characters are based in Academy City, so if we were to open up to new locations, they probably wouldn't see much very much use for a long while. Well, it'd be another story if we made use of the AU setting (and maybe the existence of the Reishi, which appears to have been completely forgotten) to create an opportunity to expand the boundaries a bit.

Even though this is a A Certain Alternate Universe, we've been following the canon quite closely. A bit too closely, in my opinion. Perhaps it'd be good to, in the next arc, instead of moving onto Angel Fall, have a completely original event occur. One that'd cause the characters to have extensive contact with the magical side of the world, especially in an international situation, such as having them sent overseas for some purpose. If anyone who has a canon character involved in Angel Fall wants to participate, then an easy solution would be to set it after the events of Angel Fall.

One possible scenario would be for there to be a field trip of some sort to an overseas location, during which they are separated from the Academy City personnel and embroiled in a conflict related to the magic side and/or the Reishi.
It seems that it has already been decided that the next arc will be an original one. That'd open up relations to various organizations, create more reasons for new magicians to get involved afterwards (perhaps by referencing that event), open up new locations, hopefully cause the roleplay to become a bit more fast paced, and at least partially release the restraints that the roleplay has gained by following the canon so closely, creating more freedom.

Tangent1_End

Regarding Index's guides, those were actually put up fairly recently, and haven't received much editing, so they're quite raw. And as for your suggestions regarding the list of traits that are currently being used, I think creating and maintaining such a list would quite tedious, and overall, it'd be more efficient to just have the eval mods/miscellaneous kind citizens to notify the new people that there's already an excess of such traits.

Creating one for powers, on the other hand, would be much more useful. We've had quite a few people trying to create gravity based powers recently, for example, so if we put up a list of all the powers that people have, then that could be referenced when creating a character. Also, instead of just putting up the powers that're currently being used, we could just list all the powers that've been shown in the series, plus abilities suggested by members. That'd give new members a lot information to draw from, and even if they don't want to use any of those abilities, they could still draw inspiration from them.

Tangent2_End

While I do agree with your ideas regarding mind control espers, as Iva said already, from what I've heard, there was one person who played Shokuhou Misaki and caused quite a bit of trouble, leading to the current restriction.

And regarding the factions, frankly, I don't think those're going to see any use any time soon. Unless something similar to the arc suggestion in my first tangent goes down, there's basically zero room for the creation of magic side faction (which would have a lot more freedom than a science side faction), and science side factions that could have any impact on the story appear to be more or less limited to the dark side, which sets a lot of limitations on their creation. Plus, there's the fact that you'd need members for a faction. As in, more than one. Ideally three or four, by my estimate, which means it'd take quite a bit of planning from multiple people.

Well, for original factions, perhaps the staff could create an NPC faction for an arc, and have it recruit people during/after it. That sounds it could be fun, and also allow people not in a faction to join one. Tangent3_cutOff

As for the creation of more Level 5s, we're already following the canon closely enough that we'd have to make some serious retcons to the roleplay's setting if we want to increase the base number of Level 5s, and allow for people to create characters at that level right off the bat. I don't really like that idea for two reasons: Retcons are bad, and I've seen a couple of other Raildex roleplays around the web, and most of them allowed people to create Level 5s right off the bat. They were all dead. Personally, I believe that because we disallow the creation of overly powerful characters, there's a better overall balance of power between characters, people are more creative with their abilities, and it allows for more growth.

And as Iva pointed out, it has been stated that it is theoretically possible for espers to advance to Level 5 throughout the course of the roleplay. However, also due in large part to how closely we're following the canon, there is a large emphasis on theoretically. And as such, that is yet another reason to try and distance ourselves from the canon.

Tangent4_End

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Re: Character System Suggestions and Others

Post  Kerri McKinley on Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:06 am

Well, I'm a little late, but I guess I'll try and add my own thoughts.

The incentive for making magicians is that they have the possibility to have unique powers not bound to any scientific logic.

The main problem we tend to have with people being interested in making them it the work needed to come up with how powers work. I've never been an expert with tracking how magic works, but the typical requirements are that they typically revolve around to religious terms and tales, with special items, or 'totems'. Index's knowledge on the subject has helped cleared up some obscurity, but a lot of people found it easier to create powers for espers, just because of the simplicity. So, right now, we're lacking much incentive to create magicians, or at least as much compared to making espers.

As for other locations, I can agree on expanding the locations, or rather sublocations, of Academy city. Perhaps adding a short description of each District's purpose, a map of the city with the location highlighted in each thread, and some sub locations within each. The only thing I worry about it whether or not these spots would be used. If they're just left to stagnate, than they'd be pointless.

Regarding the canon, I agree, a mod to update it, some of the other lists would be useful. Finding someone who can manage to do that at a regular pace is another discussion altogether. Regarding your idea with listing the powers of people, and he personality-perhaps we could combine them? Give a name, brief summary of a person, and what they can do as an esper/magician?

With factions, I agree with everything you said, and if necessary, it could have its own list for newcomers to see, in case they’re ever interested. No factions have actually had any chance to be properly established, and of course there’s the issues with members, and whether or not NPC’s will be made for them. Like Jack said, hopefully that’ll change with the new original arc coming up.

As for mind-controlling, and the restriction on that, you were already told about how someone tried to RP as Shokuhou Misaki, so I won’t go into that, I’ll just mention how having someone with that kind of ability kind of breaks the story, when everyone around the character like that can be controlled, and read the minds of all involved. Maybe if the interactions are mainly kept with someone like Mikoto, who can resist mind control it could work, but otherwise, it’s just very messy. I’m not against the use of seemingly overpowered characters, nor am I against the use of mind control-as long as there are clear limits and/or weaknesses to either. There’s also the problem with getting permission from other players to control their characters, and as mentioned, the trust issue with the whole thing. Perhaps in the future we can have someone RP as her, but it’ll be a person who has shown they’re competent, and can understand all of the problems that a Level 5 like Misaki can cause, and is willing to be kept on a tight leash because of how easily things could get messed up.

Regarding non-canon Level 5’s, they are possible, it’s just required that people work their way up from a lower level to get there, and so far, no one has really set up an esper for that. Original Level 5’s would be cool, but as everyone knows, their creation should be VERY limited for a number of reasons.

BTW, two things: One, that I’m surprised Index didn’t put in her list was how making a Level 5 works. I don’t recall if it was written in any other obvious places that could be seen by anyone, but I think a guide for making espers should probably have that, so a player can start considering the idea early on and have their character develop their power, as well as keep in contact with Guy or Index about it. Since the list is in need of an update, I think that’s a pretty big amendment to be made.

Two, this one goes to Jack just regarding a minor thing you mentioned-I personally disagree with retcons being bad. They’re mainly a problem when they impede with established events, or continuity. If a character suddenly has this horrible, traumatic event in their past that occurred when it was stated that nothing happened, that’s a bad retcon. If an event in the past happened, and there was nothing mentioned that would counteract said event, that’d be a good retcon. Of course foreshadowing is always good, but otherwise it wouldn’t be a retcon, just… well, a normal part of the story. Otherwise, I’m in agreement with your main point of the paragraph.

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Re: Character System Suggestions and Others

Post  [Old] Index on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:03 pm

Ishida Gina wrote:So this topic will be about the characters being made for the roleplay and anything else related to them.

First, the magicians. What are the incentives in making a magician character? Yes, there is a magic side plot going on, but the main problem is the setting. I see all the boards pointing to Academy City, but where's the rest of the world? I think there should be boards open for settings around the world.

Speaking of settings, I think some of the Academy City boards should be expanded on. For example, in "Other Distracts", I only see two sub-districts. Opening up sub-boards for the other distracts will create more clarity for those browsing the forums.

Secondly, the canon list. It's not so much about the list itself, but the maintenance of it. It's not updated often. If you guys are lacking mods in specific fields (updating, grading, etc.), why not open up a mod hiring application or choose someone to be a mod, someone that you know is already trustworthy and responsible? With more mods, updates can be made more often and you can delegate tasks between more people, creating overall less work for an individual mod.

Lastly, the Index guide. There's nothing wrong with it per say, but I do prefer a bit more clarity. For example, in the esper consideration guide, I see bolded headings that suggests restrictions and deterrence. But what if you are really adamant about making this type of character? There should be a complete separate paragraph as a REMINDER saying that you can still try to make these type of characters and it's up to the mods discretion if it should be approved or not.

Most of these restrictions and deterrences targets the personality. You want more happy people, etc. Ok, that's understandable. You will also allow exceptional profiles to occupy the very tragic type, if the character is well-made. Why not organize these personalities into a list? Of all the characters you approved, compile their names into a list, and summarize their personality. You can see what kind of personalities are occupied. Not only you, but the regular members can also see this list, so they know what personality to think of that isn't done yet. If I see no insane personality-type character on the list, then I know I can go ahead and make that personality character. It helps me think of what's done and what can be done.

Exact same thing can be done for factions. List the factions and summarize what's their goals are for everyone to see. People making a faction can then see what goals are not being focused on yet. I do agree with the reminders of joining an existing faction because of a possibility you won't get much RPs with the created faction. But, if the RPer has already discussed with other people who's gonna be eventually recruited, then you know for sure the faction will eventually be filled up. They can then plot with other RPers of how the faction will interact with other factions or individual people.

In terms of mind controlling abilities and the restriction, I think its just really downplaying the trust between RPer and RPer. For example, I would not mind having my character completely controlled. Fundamentally, a RPer should be discussing with another RPer the guideline of what is to happen within the topic. If they agree, the topic goes on. If they don't, the topic doesn't get made in the first place. Roleplays are done with the plot in mind, and I hope not with the thought of my character being the most unbeatable. I can extend this to seemingly overpowered abilities. Just let the creativity flow, and allow a person to create any power, no matter how ridiculous, as long as the mods suggests to them to put clear weaknesses.

Which comes to power level. Having 7 level 5 esper slots seems really restricting. Added to the fact that all of them are canonical characters. Sure, maybe there's satisfaction in possibly beating Accelerator, but I'd rather have more satisfaction beating an original character of a similar power level. I want to see the creativity and effort put into this original character befitting to be the strongest esper, because I want to see how this character acts, and what kind of power he/she has. If I know all the espers will be level 4s max, then the level 5 concept to original characters is meaningless in terms of originality, because there will never be a level 5 original esper.

Canonically, seven slots seems to be a good number for level 5s out of 1.8 million espers as per the scientist's predictions. But these scientists are humans that can make mistakes. Why not add some originality to the rules set in the To Aru universe? Why not an 8th, 9th and 10th slot for a level 5 esper? Or why not have the scientists make up a theoretical level 4.5s, where they are level 4 espers beyond the rest of the level 4s but not as significant as the level 5s?

In other words, give the original characters some chance in a field that a canonical character has pre-occupied. You can obviously compile a list of esper powers and set a limit to how many espers can have this power. For example, if you're set with Accelerator and Imagine Breaker being the rarest, then set the limit to one character occupying those powers (which Accelerator and Touma occupies those spots). If you want a powerful ability limited to two people, then do that. It can give you a basis of how many people deserves this power on a quantity perspective. Or maybe a better example is the personality. If you want more happy people, set that limit to 100 characters being happy. If you want less tragic people, set that limit to 10. Think of a ratio, and then look at your summarized personality list. See if there's a chance for someone to make a tragic character, and if the limits been reached, just tell them "oh we have enough tragic characters, we prefer you to make a happy character." This can be expanded to factions (oh we have enough of dark factions, we want more of a light-hearted faction) and esper abilities (oh we have enough of rare/ridiculous powers, and we want more common, lighter powers).

Interesting ideas you’ve pointed out there Gina so I’ll do my best to give you my personal opinions on those ideas you’ve pointed out.

The incentives of making a Magician? I’m not too sure how to answer that without asking a question back, what are the incentives in making a Esper and how does it drastically differ from making a Magician? The only real incentives I see is whether someone wants to make a Esper or Magician. As for opening up other parts of the world, can you further elaborate which parts of the world you want to open up? My personal opinions on the matter is that opening up multiple parts of the world as interactive space would only cause even more chaos than it’s worth. From my perspective there’s already enough for us to work with inside Academy City, by opening up European continents what exactly would that achieve? Yes there would be some room for Magician characters to rp Magician exclusive threads but aren’t we then stretching ourselves thin? I say this because I’ve been in forums where you had like 100 (parts of the world) opened for rpers to make their threads in and more than half of them wasn’t even used and rpers didn’t even bother to look in areas where they could have participated, afterall who wants to look through countless threads searching for activities? As such I think it’s a better lesser evil to keep the events happening in Academy City. That and also because not everyone would have read the novels. Many people that wander into our site seems to have been influenced because of the Animated series which more or less still focus most of the plots within Academy City (Yes there have been a few in Index where they had to go outside the country but still).

As for expanding Academy City boards, I guess that could work in comparison to opening up world boards. If you have specific requests it can be considered so feel free to ask us anytime.

As for the lack of mod activity yes I totally agree that there should be more mods taking charge around the place. I’m a horrid example myself but I can see the need for hiring more active mods. I can’t say for certain but it’s a problem I’ll try to address with Guy.

As for my guide on creating characters. I’m not 100% against someone making a cookie cutter Uchiha prodigy with a tragic past story. If the rper is really adamant about it then so be it. I’m not against the idea but I expect sound logic in the hows and whys behind the character’s background and personality if someone really wanted to create a depressing character. The problem often lies with a rper who looks at a complex character concept and thinks it’ll be amazing to integrate the ideas onto his own character but what I found was that many people does a very half assed jobs of it and the whole character starts to fall apart because the creators haven’t considered everything into perspectives. If someone is prepared to meet such demands I’m 100% fine with anyone going ahead with those ideas. But knowing my harsh critiques not many seem to want to give it any attempt at it. So I’d like to take this chance to tell everyone that I won’t chomp anyone’s hand off for trying.

Same thing for the factions. It can’t be a half assed job and really needs to be thought out properly. If anyone is willing to take on the burden and give it their all I’m more than happy to communicate and assist them as best I can to create a sub faction that isn’t canon. However, I simply can’t have a empty faction doing nothing but advertise what they’re trying to accomplish so I do expect a very long discussion with all parties involved (mainly myself, the leader and the members). Last thing I want is for 5 people to create their own “Faction” and have no members in them at all because everyone wants to create something original and be the leader of that faction when all 5 people could be in the same faction and actually get the ball rolling. This clearly does need to be revised further so thanks for pointing it out.

As for mind controlling abilities
It’s just as you say, it really comes down to the trust between all parties involved. We’ve already had some past experiences where a certain mind controller decided to abuse the ability and that created a lot of friction between the rpers. The reason we downright banned them was to avoid having to run into the same issue again because at the end of the day if both parties can’t agree to who can and can’t be mind controlled into doing what the controller tells them, then it really comes down to us to decide and I can assure you whichever decision we come up with will always create problems.

Say if MindController A controlled B to punch himself.

B didn’t like that idea so B complained to the mods.

Canonically speaking A has a high enough lvl esper to make B punch himself until his fists crack.

We can tell A yes he can make B punch himself and B can cry in a corner
or
We can tell A stop being a prick and reject him from using his power

Either choice we make there’s bound to be further problems rising from that. If we take A’s side because it’s canonically correct then B will call that tyranny and leave the forum. If we take B’s side A will claim that’s tyranny and downright unfair on him and leave the forum.

To avoid this sort of issue we’ve decided to ban the ability altogether. I’m afraid neither myself or Guy is willing to lift the ban as it’s been decided Mind Controlling simply can’t be balanced full stop. If anyone truly wants to be Shokuhou Misaki I would not trust anyone but a fellow mod whose gained the trust of both myself, guy as well as the forum community to use the abilities responsibly. Even then it’s a long shot.

As for opening up Level 5 slots.
I would like to say yes sometime far into the future we will definitely consider it. But right now we’d like to keep it to canon and close off the cap to 7 canon Lv5s. I can give you reasons for this but I feel like that will force me to write a long essay instead so I’ll keep it short and say No (for now).


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