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Let's discuss writing...

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Let's discuss writing...

Post  Oda Taichi on Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:17 pm

Writing. Yes I mean an open discussion about romance writing within the fanfiction format was is highly controversial in the eyes of many people. This has been on my mind since reading Natsumi's reaction to the thought in general.

How basically most of it is really the author is trying to get close to the character in question. I don't want that and even if I did it would be Sir Alexander Beathen with Carissa and thats not on the rader whatsoever.

The romance in question for my fanfiction is the third ranked level five Mikoto Misaka and the Original Level five Eolas Stuart. But this thread isn't about them but more entirely about the practice of romance.

What is acceptable and what isn't?

What will work if you read about it and if anyone's interested I'm willing to share my plans of the rewritten formart for the romance development.

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Let's discuss combat scenes...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Mon May 09, 2016 12:26 am

Another thing in regards to writing, since this basically can be done very differently so I'm rather interested in what you guys prefer and why.

For example we have a simple fighting scene, which briefly describes some actions than leave the rest rather vague. Allowing for the reader to picture it themselves in their mind.

The other being a heavily descriptive take of a fight, describing every move and action. Which can get tedious in my opinion. Some also say that fights should be short affairs and not be dragged along unless it progresses the plot or develop the character.

So what do you think?

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Let's discuss Romance...

Post  Erin Lightheart on Thu May 19, 2016 8:11 am

Whenever I approach romance in writing, there are numerous factors I like to take into account to make it more realistic and relatable as opposed to wish-fulfillment. My thought process usually begins with looking at each character's entire background, personalities, role models, daily lives, emotional ranges, socialization, culture, social pressures, and how these may overlap between two or more of them that may end up in a romantic relationship. Is a character emotionally vulnerable or healthy? Have they had healthy role models to look to to see what romance is, or poor role models? Are there social pressures that make one believe they need a romantic companion because it's expected of them? How about culture; where it may be customary to wed by a certain age, or maybe there's even arranged marriage? Or are some people just hormonal and looking to let off some steam without realizing what they have and want isn't actually romance?

There are a lot of factors to consider here, but it is really worth it to explore relationships from this starting point if you're interested in writing more realistic and human tales of love and loss. I can elaborate on any point if you are interested.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Vita Vesta Caesar on Thu May 19, 2016 8:22 am

There are two types of love. Shoujo manga love. Boy meets girl, or vice versa. They fight, they make up, they overcome adversity, they fall in love. It's cute. It's lovely. It's a wonderful way to fill your heart with fluffy bunny rabbits.

It's also rather boring and conventional. Pass.

Well, the above statement is kind of an exaggeration (I do like me some shoujo manga), but the gist of the statement stands. It's conventional, it's tried and tested, and the format will work, with the obvious caveat of the characters and the writing being good enough. But, that means you see the same thing everywhere, just with different characters. Some people stray from it more than others, but the line of 'they meet', 'they fight', 'they overcome adversity together', and 'it turns out they actually like each other instead of hating each other' just keeps reappearing everywhere. And that is boring (or becomes so, after a while)!

So, although some classic shoujo manga is good from time to time, I generally prefer things that go in an utterly different direction. For example, Yuno Gasai from Mirai Nikki. She's a rather standard example of a yandere, but notice something. The above format is completely absent. There's twists and turns, there's more emotions than just love and hate, there's fear, guilt, and so much more. And the cause of that?

Mental instability! Insanity! Complete and utter unhingement! It can be on one side or the other, and the extremes can vary from absolute axe craziness to something more like Bitter Virgin, but it (unless screwed up, of course) will almost certainly destroy that format. You can delve into the source of what caused the mental scars of the afflicted party, judge how the other reacts to them, attempts to heal them, or even how they pretend they aren't there... You can delve so much deeper into the characters than just 'meet > dislike > adversity > like'.

Anyway, I've a feeling that I completely failed to actually answer whatever you were asking about romance, and this is highly probable to actually have become some illegible wreck that doesn't actually make any sense due to it being two in the morning and my midnight oil being on the verge of running out, but. Well. These are my thoughts on romance! The most interesting kind, anyway.


Last edited by Vita Vesta Caesar on Thu May 19, 2016 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I was right! It was rather illegible! Now with 50% more legibility.)

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Kira Kohaku on Sat May 21, 2016 5:49 am

So, I ain't gonna talk about romance. I don't really write romance and frankly, if you look at most of my writing, I enjoy writing family a lot more than I like writing romance, especially sibling relationships. I mean, my test post for Maria was literally a sibling relationship one-shot.

So, let's talk about fighting scenes instead. Fight scenes are an interesting case. There are multiple types of fights. Ones that are more about pure power. Others that are more about clashing wits.

What matters is creating a proper flow for the writing and matching it to the type of fight scene you are working with. For example, a more high paced fight scene will involve a higher pace of events. This is when you can skimp on details and give more of a bare minimum.

Let's take something I wrote for example.

Spoiler:
She could not predict the idiosyncrasies of Byakuya's attacks. If she could not do that, her responses would be too slow.

So, she immediately moved forward, ignoring the flying petals cutting at her. She gathered all of the illusory petals and concentrated them back into the blade.

Byakuya's eyes widened at the sight of Shizuku's flower petals concentrating into the blade. It was never something he had tried in Shikai before but it used the theory behind his Senkei.

Concentration of the multiple blades into one to create one with a powerful force.

He knew, all too well, how devastating such an attack would be.

As soon as the girl had flash-stepped into the woundless zone, ready to swing her blade at Byakuya, he held he hand to face her chest. "Hadō #63. 雷吼炮 (Raikōhō)."

A yellow flash lit the area with the sound of crashing thunder as Shizuku was immediately thrown back to an even greater distance away than when she had started. She stumbled, trying to get on her feet when…

"Bakudō #61. 六杖光牢 (Rikujōkōrō)."

Six wide beams of light slammed into Shizuku's midsection. Her grip on the her sword slightly loosed on impact before her body's movements completely shut down. She was stuck in a half standing position, unable to move.

All she could do was stare at the captain standing a few meters away.

In the end, the outcome was obvious. She was completely outmatched.

There was no way that a simple Fifth Seat could overcome a Captain and even her near-victory over the Vice-Captain came purely because of his limiter being active.

She was faced with the unquestionable reality that she would no longer be able to proceed forward.

Actions need to be straightforward and flow. When the battle is moving quickly, the text needs to match that, allowing for numerous actions to occur within a couple of paragraphs. At the same time, when one puts the fight scene into more of a moment of calm or intense emotion/contemplation, the text can begin to stretch out as thoughts and the like are laid bare.

As for length...it really depends on my writer. I mean, I've had a fight scene take up almost half of a chapter in the same fic as above. Of course, fight scenes with more character development are going to inevitably be longer but at the same time, those without don't necessarily have to be brief.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Fri May 27, 2016 11:10 am

Thank you for ya responses.

On the subject of Romance, some what both of you said pointed out good examples. To help further with this I shall elobrate on the subject manor which my romance writing shall focus on. Checking my Olvl 5 fic thread will already have Mikoto's bio in full and parts of Eolas' bio.  

Here's a bit about Mikoto's releationship with Eolas before any signs of a romantic relationship.

Spoiler:
Mikoto's relationship with Eolas Stuart (Pre-romance)

He was her first friend in Academy City, first meeting at five years old at a testing centre before later entering Elementary School at the same time. Mikoto would gift Eolas a Gekota strap upon entering elementary school as a sign of friendship.

((The Following is an extract from Mikoto's history))
This was also the same day she would meet a foreigner child known as Eolas Stuart. Both would immediately get along as after being told why Mikoto was acting nervous because she had forgotten her Gekota Plushie. The boy attempted to comfort her by drawing Gekota on a piece of paper, but the boy was not artist and it was a very bad attempt since he never seen a Gekota before in his life. While this wasn't exactly a plushie it had made Mikoto laugh giving birth to a long lasting friendship.

They were immediately good friends with similar likes and both highly competitive. So acute was their understanding of each other, they were able to work remarkably well as a team in sports and even during fights. Even comfortable enough to pull pranks on each other, one which cost her 10,000 yen in a vending machine which she has continued to kick since.

While at this moment she has yet to learn of Eolas' dark past she saw him as a constant figure of support who would always be there to lend a helping hand. He seemed to always know the answer when it came to various problems specially when it came to esper developments. But this reliance on a good friend had only made things more painful when the events of the Sixth Incident came about, showing just how much she didn't understand about Eolas or even know him. His supposed death during the climax of the sixth incident would have a dramatic effect on Mikoto's thinking, making her more anti-soical unwilling to make the effort to reach out to others.

But despite everything she found out during the Sixth Incident, she never questioned it further considering she had thought he had died. She had overlooked it because of the singular act of keeping the Gekota strap she had given him when they was young. This to her was proof enough that their friendship was genuine despite what happened.

But this would no longer suffice upon his return two years later. His return would shake her entire world to its core she would try to adjust to the fact hes alive, but with no memories of his past. She decided to use the fact he can't remember anything to continue to move on thanks to the help of Kuroko. But in a sense of irony it would be her own memories of their time together and her desire to understand the truth of what happened two years that would leave her uncertain of her decision.

The above is a reflection of their relationship up to the current chapter. As you see they have the childhood starting point and yet I also attempted to destroy the advantage that brings. The purpose was that that the boy's return with no memories would be a restart in their relationship. Mikoto isn't exactly happy at the moment, since the boy has broken promises and basically lied to her over the years. More so that his dark past is actually rather bloody, the comparison to them he is truly a monsterous demon but she would be an ignorant angel.

There is numerous reasons why Mikoto should hate Eolas, but it's also because of who he truly is that makes the opposite also true. Eolas has a complex personality due to the circumstances of his growth and development. But to Eolas their relationship was the only real connection that kept his humanity alive and that part of himself wanted to protect it. Time and time again when you do read the series you would notice many acts while seem vague at the time, where actions made to protect that connection.

Hell even though it was the death of a clone of Mikoto, which sparked the Sixth Incident. Basically the Original Level Five's rebellion against Academy city. It was motivated partially by the fact the clone was of Mikoto Misaka and it's existence threatened to bring the original into the city's darkness. The very thought of it was enough to bring Eolas' identity crises to a conclusion. Resolving him to wage war against the world he has grown to known.

One of the conditions of ending his rebellion would be excepting Mikoto and all those who took part from the underworld/experiments. This of course would be later broken in the time line with the Sisters Arc and level sixth shift attempt on Mikoto.

With the later being the trigger which brought Eolas back to Academy city.

So what do you think? A person who was once a friend, turned out to be someone you didn't know only to find out everything they have done is to protect them. The plan is to go further and showing Eolas would start to suffer to help Mikoto, who in a future planned story would focus on her father's connection to the magic side. Her father would be missing and presumed dead, knowing at that point Eolas' past she would selfishly ask him to go back into that dark world to bring him back.

A task which he would accept and would almost kill him at the end of this planned story line involving her father. The idea is to have Mikoto finally see the many sacrifices he has made for her than and over the years to accumulate in a relationship. But only for Eolas to reveal that he would do everything for her because it was she who saved her so many times.

The power of a connection which was born at a young age, served to not only protect Eolas from losing his humanity to his own darkness but also the world. Imperator is a planned that pinned on Eolas' losing his complete humanity to succeed in progressing to the next stop. That is why he was tortured, treated like an object and thrown into bloody conflicts over an over.

So basically this relationship has a real impact on the story and I think a real connection with both characters. Both have something the other doesn't, Eolas has the confidence which she doesn't and Mikoto has the innocence which he doesn't. What do you think? Would this work in your opinion?




On the subject of fighting.

@Kohaku

I do agree with a lot of you said, but for a direct opinion from you do you think fights that are driven by development would be the best way to take it? I mean in the later half of my fic, there is a fight which goes on for many than three chapters to four at most. This is because it's a struggle between the Level Fives and The Rensa units. Micheal, the Rensa who is a self-aware AI basically wages war against the Level fives.

Of course this isn't just a one certain person vs just one certain other. But a struggle involving them all which would climax to the moment the OLvL5 recovers his memories.




Which brings me to another subject. How does memories effect one's personality exactly? What is your guys opinion? I believe that losing ones memories is a way to restart ones personality, with the whole nature vs nature argument.

If one is brought up one way and loses their memories... Would they be different if brought up a different way the second time. Would their personality be different?

And what exactly happens when all those past memories flooding back from past self who were different? Would that change the character's personality further or result in a further changed person.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sogiita Gunha on Sun May 29, 2016 7:47 am

I think the use of a childhood acquaintance device is a horrible idea and only serves for them to instantly recognize each other.

It's a crap device so you can skip the whole getting to know people stage and it doesn't matter how angry she is at him for just going up and out. I'm also taking away marks in the case of circumstances outside his control being the culprit. That's horribly cliche and almost too difficult to justify.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Sun May 29, 2016 9:07 am

Sogiita Gunha wrote:I think the use of a childhood acquaintance device is a horrible idea and only serves for them to instantly recognize each other.

It's a crap device so you can skip the whole getting to know people stage and it doesn't matter how angry she is at him for just going up and out. I'm also taking away marks in the case of circumstances outside his control being the culprit. That's horribly cliche and almost too difficult to justify.

On the first part, the whole childhood device was used as circumstance to move a plot forward. I thought while I do agree the idea is overused, it's counter balanced by Eolas losing his memories later on. Which means Eolas and Mikoto have to start from square one. And it's a story point, that the Eolas which Mikoto knew may of not been his real self.

So while they met at childhood they still have to go through the process of knowing each other again. Which not only serves proper development but helps the flow of plot. Giving numerous events justification.

And I'm not sure what you mean by your second paragraph, you said you'll elaborate later.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Shiraishi Ryouko on Sun May 29, 2016 10:23 am

Hmm well I'll be honest I never wrote romance and possibly not the best person to seek advice regarding romance writing.

While I'm un-experienced though I think if I had to write romance I would try to explore in greater depth what the characters are feeling, what they are perceiving (all senses). Inner thoughts, internal struggles and loads more, romance allows you to explore many aspects about the character but at the same time it's difficult to write it, then again I never tried haha.

Romance genre in general has never been a huge appeal to me but I found several anime titles produced by KEY to be a good reference point for unique takes on how romance is explored and how its started. Some of it feels like it came out of nowhere and feels very random, but romance in real life can be just as unexpected and random.

As for the childhood development I keep hearing on this thread alone, it's a very overused idea haha. Personally I'm not a huge fan of it but I guess it can work if it means setting up a base foundation for you to work with.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Kira Kohaku on Sun May 29, 2016 6:14 pm

Sir Alexander Beathen wrote:
On the subject of fighting.

@Kohaku

I do agree with a lot of you said, but for a direct opinion from you do you think fights that are driven by development would be the best way to take it? I mean in the later half of my fic, there is a fight which goes on for many than three chapters to four at most. This is because it's a struggle between the Level Fives and The Rensa units. Micheal, the Rensa who is a self-aware AI basically wages war against the Level fives.

Of course this isn't just a one certain person vs just one certain other. But a struggle involving them all which would climax to the moment the OLvL5 recovers his memories.

Again, it heavily depends. There are great fight scenes that are good just for the sake of being high octane fight scenes. On the other hand, I would expect a fight that gives more development to characters to take more time.

For a struggle, 3-4 chapters is not inherently wrong (though it also depends on chapter length). If anything, it fits pretty well. For example, the fight scenes in a Nanoha fic I like called Infinity take quite a long time and can span across multiple chapters due to the fact that it's the main characters continuously struggling against overpowered enemies.

Sir Alexander Beathen wrote:
Which brings me to another subject. How does memories effect one's personality exactly? What is your guys opinion? I believe that losing ones memories is a way to restart ones personality, with the whole nature vs nature argument.

If one is brought up one way and loses their memories... Would they be different if brought up a different way the second time. Would their personality be different?

And what exactly happens when all those past memories flooding back from past self who were different? Would that change the character's personality further or result in a further changed person.

That really depends. Let's take two examples...well, one example since the other is an Umineko spoiler.
Take Touma. Even after his memory loss, the core of who he is still remains the same. That is pretty much the point of OT02. On the other hand, certain qualities be lost due to their connection with the person's experience.

On the topic of nature vs nurture, it's a combination of both. Some qualities are far more innate while others are much more linked to experiences. Those that are linked to experiences will invariably be lost while those that are innate will remain.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Sun May 29, 2016 7:21 pm

Shokuhō Misaki wrote:Hmm well I'll be honest I never wrote romance and possibly not the best person to seek advice regarding romance writing.

While I'm un-experienced though I think if I had to write romance I would try to explore in greater depth what the characters are feeling, what they are perceiving (all senses). Inner thoughts, internal struggles and loads more, romance allows you to explore many aspects about the character but at the same time it's difficult to write it, then again I never tried haha.

Romance genre in general has never been a huge appeal to me but I found several anime titles produced by KEY to be a good reference point for unique takes on how romance is explored and how its started. Some of it feels like it came out of nowhere and feels very random, but romance in real life can be just as unexpected and random.

As for the childhood development I keep hearing on this thread alone, it's a very overused idea haha. Personally I'm not a huge fan of it but I guess it can work if it means setting up a base foundation for you to work with.

It is a base foundation, it had served to not only lay the ground work for them. But it help connect the dots in the overall picture known as the series' plot. But you reminded me when you mentioned Key. This relationship structure is actually based of a route in the Visual Novel Clannad... shall put in spoiler tag just in case.

Spoiler:
Based on the route involving Kotomi Ichinose, where she was child hood buddies with the main lead but he forgets about her later on in life. Of course the difference being Eolas lost his memories while he just forgot as sometimes kids do.


Kira Kohaku wrote:
Sir Alexander Beathen wrote:
Which brings me to another subject. How does memories effect one's personality exactly? What is your guys opinion? I believe that losing ones memories is a way to restart ones personality, with the whole nature vs nature argument.

If one is brought up one way and loses their memories... Would they be different if brought up a different way the second time. Would their personality be different?

And what exactly happens when all those past memories flooding back from past self who were different? Would that change the character's personality further or result in a further changed person.

That really depends. Let's take two examples...well, one example since the other is an Umineko spoiler.
Take Touma. Even after his memory loss, the core of who he is still remains the same. That is pretty much the point of OT02. On the other hand, certain qualities be lost due to their connection with the person's experience.

On the topic of nature vs nurture, it's a combination of both. Some qualities are far more innate while others are much more linked to experiences. Those that are linked to experiences will invariably be lost while those that are innate will remain.

So taking my character for example as a child he was a very curious and understanding boy. But Academy city turned him into a nightmarish weapon to be used against the magic side. A boy who has literally slaughtered thousands and treated like a tool turned him cruel among the whole side effect of esper development. The only time he wasn't like that was around Mikoto because on the importance of that connections. (Hanging onto his humanity)

So the point of him losing his memories was to wipe the slate clean Academy's cities influence and start again. Turning him away from that cruel side, into someone who is well... not a model citizen but at least grey on the moral scale. He becomes a comrade and more of a human who is flawed.. not a goodie hero.

I'm pretty sure I decided even than Eolas isn't a goodie too shoes. But the core of his character is a guy who is curious and wants to understand many things. And most important of all which relates to the wish that inspired his magical name. He values freedom and those three traits remain with him despite his memory loss.

That wish and the situation he ends up in is rather ironic.

But back to the point would what I explained seem legit in how his loss of memories would effect him? And I need to note he loses his memories more than once. Certain story points which forces the story to tackle what is causing the memories losses.

So it's kinda funny... those two kinda have to start at square 1 more than once... though Mikoto less so the second time since... she gets whats going on at that point.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Erin Lightheart on Tue May 31, 2016 11:38 am

To expand on what I said earlier, as well as keeping the new information given after it, I would like to say that before getting to the major cliche issues, I'd like to bring up one of the most important things a writer of any kind of romance story has to keep in mind: If the reader can already guess what form the romance will take before it happens, then anything you throw in to muddy the waters might as well not even be there. There's no point in prolonging the "will they? won't they?" if the answer is incredibly obvious from the very beginning, and as an author, your job is to not let the reader get a glimpse into your intended outcomes so easily.

And with that in mind, I would like to say that introducing things like a childhood friendship already existing between two characters you intend to become a romantic couple in this context only serves to make the outcome incredibly, almost obnoxiously obvious to the reader, no matter what twists you put on it. Even if one of them loses their memories, the other will still have a connection with them, and it's from this one-sided connection that their new relationship begins. The reader already knows the one who still has memories has feelings for the one who lost theirs, you still end up losing the usual emotional journey that two people would normally take to end up together. To be specific, you had one person's half of the journey completed already, placing all the attention onto the person who hasn't completed theirs, and the journey to a genuine relationship feels like half a story.

This also extends to any other thing that gives a "They're destined to be together!" feel. Anything that's overused and can immediately be interpretted as "Yeah, those two will be together in the end."

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Tue May 31, 2016 7:07 pm

Alright it's pretty clear that the whole childhood thing is not popular. While the idea was to justify other events like the friendship being an anchor to one's humanity. Overall I want to construct something which seems real. And lastly I want to challenge myself to do something which isn't so cliche.

The main issue with changing the childhood concept here for this story, it requires so many changes so I'm going to have too look at the ground up.

But its not exactly impossible.

So I decided since I'm rewriting the series along with a new format. That I actually try a different path for both characters. This of course means making the series much more darker, which is actually a very good thing. To be fair it was their friendship which kept Eolas from losing his entire sense of humanity, so without that connection there is no reason to hold it back.

But let's get some points down for this new format of relationship start. Each point will be followed by a short explanation in spoiler tags.

1) Mikoto and Eolas will meet at 11 years old.
Spoiler:
Compared to the original idea, where both of them met at 5 years old. This age automatically cancels out the whole childhood thing. Even if they started on good terms, which they don't and brings onto my next point.

2) Mikoto and Eolas' relationship will start off as hostile.
Spoiler:
This is the complete opposite to the original idea and a good reason. While the original had them start on a good foot. This takes the different approach taking in the repercussion of the different circumstances. Without Eolas having that earlier genuine relationship to hold onto his humanity there is nothing stopping him being swallowed into the insanity and darkness which grips him.  

I plan for Mikoto to be dragged into the ongoing conflict between Eolas and magical community when they attempt to come to the city to stop him on his home turf. Of course this goes horribly wrong and three magicians start to get slaughtered. But before he manages to kill the last sibling, the youngest sister of the three magicians Mikoto would stumble on this event and save the magician from being killed.

Her power has an advantage over his own so she can hold her own. But she would almost get killed by him, but is helped by the female magician who managed to get away during her interruption to allow Mikoto also to get away. It's important to note Mikoto will not realise they are magicians being killed by Eolas. But this meeting will be used as a precursor for her new role in the Sixth Incident.



Eolas' Mental state

Another discussion is on the table as a direct result of changing Mikoto and his relationship beginning. I explained it above more than once. There is nothing stopping Eolas from turning into a complete monster, with his humanity being destroyed and turned into a weapon against the Magical community.

What I need to happen is find a new way to trigger a sense of identity crises. With Mikoto no longer a viable option the only thing I have left on my mind is Eolas' mother.

But first left me mark down what is wrong with Eolas' mental state.

1) Witnessed his mother's death in front of his own eyes.
Spoiler:
Eolas who wasn't even five had saw his own mother died in front of him. This occurred not long after his father left the church making the boy believe it was he who did it. This had a serious effect on the boy's mind and lead to a betrayal from his family as his father blames the boy for the mother's death.

Which leads to the next point...
2) Revenge against his family
Spoiler:
He was exiled with no one he thought was family helped him. Not realising this was all a ploy, the boy was exiled to Academy the 'furthest place from magic' in the entire world. Being forced from the world he only knew and losing everything the boy's mind turned to revenge. And took hold the first opportunity to realise it in the form of Kihara Gensei.

It's important to note the boy only thinks his mother was the only real relationship and thus he still thinks positively about his mother.
3) His mind was broke after torture
Spoiler:
Due to the secrets of his birth and what he ultimately inherited. Eolas was tortured for months and often left for dead in an isolated chamber. Though remarkably he was able to resist for long, the boy's mind was eventually broken, making him passive and basically giving Academy city a way to mould the boy to their liking. For example turning his revenge against his family against the entire magical community. Which was a hard sell since the Stuarts are an infamous magical family in this universe's world.
4) Treated like a tool and not human
Spoiler:
Plain and simple, the boy is treated more like a tool note like a human. This helps further with his humanity being lost and this is a current trend throughout his life. His family and Academy city... everyone...
5) Original Level Five development
Spoiler:
In this story's world, Eolas is the first level five in the city's history. He predates the others and set the standard for espers following his development. Just like how Level five development effected the other level fives, they show personality traits which are lets say... not normal... psychopathic traits. This of course has effected Eolas and probably more so for developing into the unknown first.
6) The Nature of Level Six shift
Spoiler:
He has gone further and proved SYSTEM was a reality. This not only destroyed any major resistance during the Dark years, but also introduced a major difference and plot point for this version of the universe.

Taking the idea that was explained in the series that the realm of Angels was full. Level Six shift ascends the mind beyond that of humanity, but where does it go? Considering the forming of wings similar to an angel like with Accelerator I believe it's a form of acceding to the realm of Angels.

But that realm is full so how is it possible? Well it would only mean spirits would start to overlap and the result of the level six shift is this altogether. Eolas Stuart overlapped with an angel and to be more precise a fallen angel.

Lucifer and harbours that being himself. See where this is going and why a magical family like the Stuarts basically sent their son to become an esper? To achieve that result to bring down Lucifer and what comes with that fallen angel is it's own influence. Lucifer's spirit inside the boy is what motivates a lot of his dark activies as it slowly overtakes the boy's body and conciseness .

That is why when I talk about the Sixth Incident, it's a rebellion against the city's darkness and the darkness within himself.


So why do you need to trigger an identity crises?
Because without an identity crises there is no Sixth Incident and without that Imperator begins. Game over, the world will lose and the story would end on a rather short note.

So how?
Since the death of a clone of Mikoto is no longer a logical option. Since it would make no sense this time around, but the mother is still an option. And that is where his mother comes back into play. What happens if his mother's death was faked?

Or lets say it proper way... What if his mother also broke Eolas' trust and betrayed him? To this point the boy still thinks his mother was the only real relationship he has had in his entire life. So what if she's alive and he realises that his mother also used him as a fool. Tricking him... so he hit's the right emotional triggers to help his development along... to help progress Imperator.

But she died didn't she? Well... there are ways to make that seem like an illusion.

So would this trigger an identity crises? He lost the reason for his purpose. *revenge against his family* and that it had no meaning. He was used like a tool and was basically a prisoner to the desires of another's influence.

Now let's look at his magician's name and meaning. Taking into account he was born into a magical family and had wish before being exiled.

Magician's name: Libertatem912; The one who shall understand the word of God. A name inspired by a wish he had when he was only four. This name means 'freedom' and could mean that he had sought freedom from the shackles that was placed upon his family. But would later mean in the broad general sense freedom from the clutches of destiny which had dictated the future. This would later be synonymous with 'change' as when he finally later changes his life during the Sixth Incident as he takes the future into his own hands, thus believing to bringing himself closer to his wish. But all these meanings have been expressed by the people who knew this name other than himself. That being Laura Stuart his sister and Charles Stuart his father. There has only been one situation where Eolas had ever mentioned his magician's name and that was during the final stages of the Sixth Incident to trigger a release of his esper powers. It is not known yet what 'understanding the word of God' means in this context, but it is known by Charles Stuart that one other magician had this same name and meaning in the past. '

With lost of purpose and remembering the wish he onced had. I think this would trigger an identity crises that will not solve the issues he has had for a long time. His revengeful nature would be turned onto Academy city triggering a rebellion. And while I still tend to go with the whole memory loss angle, because he will be so guilt ridden he wants to forget what happens.

Eolas will live with his issues for most of his life, but it's ultimately up to the other characters... Mikoto, Misaki and Touma for example to change him.

So what do you think? Would this work? Would this be a good replacement for the original idea which counted on the childhood relationship being a thing. Now it's not... this is the only idea I can come up with.

For now.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Atsa Tsinaajinii on Tue May 31, 2016 8:59 pm

As I said in chat I am mostly just going to give Eolas a psych evaluation and talk about the identity crisis that you are looking for.

Looking over all the tragedies that happened to Eolas, I have to say when I think about his mental state I image a glass object that someone accidentally shattered and then tried to hurriedly tried to fix it with tape. Sorry for the metaphor, but what I mean is his mental state is highly unstable even if you don't considered the esper experimentation. I can see how his goal of revenge would keep him going but losing his mother before his eyes, thinking his family is responsible for, and being abandoned by his family in my opinion would probably leave him with severe trust issues, possible bi-polar disorder, cynical, and with high chances of schizophrenia and DID. This is especially true due to the fact that this happened at a young age, a point in time where your brain is going through a large amount of adaptions to create a point of view.

Speaking of the brain creating a point of view I will move on to the his torture at the hands of Academy City. As stated before Eolas would be in a highly impressionable state and considering he blames his family, a big family in the magic side, for the death of his mother it may not be as hard as you think for him to turn against the entire magic side. Also being at an impressional age means the torture could have caused him to lose his self-esteem and image resulting in as you said someone who acts more like a tool than a human.

Anyways on to the actually question I should be answering with this post. As for discovering that his mother is alive and coming to the realization that his whole goal of revenge was pointless, yea this would definitely cause Eolas to go through an identity crisis. Honestly, I think he might even have a full out mental break down due to his goal of living is now gone, he has to accept that all his efforts over the years have had no real purpose for himself, and most importantly he now has to deal with the large amount of guilt for all the things he has done over the years because they can no longer be justified. As for the memory loss, this is also definitely a possibility. Considering his already unstable mental state it is also very likely that his brain would repress the memories in order to protect itself. Honestly, his mind also could have repressed the memories of his torture and traumas even before he finds out his mother is alive but I doubt you want to do that.

Just have one last thing to say on the memory loss subject and that is it might be interesting story to have his memories very slowly return to him and see has he deals with this. I don't know the return of the memories would be triggered but maybe some sorta event happens or someone says something that is similar to one of his repressed memories causing it to resurface.

Well that about the end of my opinion. Sorry if it all seems like meaningless ranting but I just tried to formulate Eolas's mental condition going from what your last post said.


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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Himegami Aisa on Tue May 31, 2016 9:18 pm

Okay, I'm kind of late to the party, but I've finally caught up to the discussion and have some input to give.

So, Eolas's desire for revenge. You said that that started when he was five years old, correct? That sounds somewhat odd to me. If a child is thrown away by their parents, and/or sees their family die, would they really feel hate? Would they really want to get at the aggressor? Especially in your case, where the mother dies and the child blames it on the father, it feels rather unrealistic to me. Would a five year old really have such sophisticated thoughts? Maybe if he were half a decade older, but at that age, I can't imagine him feeling anything other than fear and confusion and sorrow. I simply can't imagine a five year old making the connection of 'mother died' > 'father's fault'. I feel like you're somewhat underestimating how young five years is. People don't often even remember anything that happened when they were that young. And the way you have it, he already had a magic name back then, too. It all just feels way too unrealistic for someone so young. The reactions and actions all feel off. If you want him to have hatred toward the magic side and/or his family, I'd recommend bumping the age some or having those emotions be something Gensei carved into him.

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Re: Let's discuss writing...

Post  Sir Alexander Beathen on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:11 pm

I'm trying to come up with a good road map for those two characters to develop romance. Since you know I like to give myself a challenge.

But first I wanted to say I had taken up the idea of throwing out the childhood angle and begun again. This time the first meeting starts off with a hostile note and I've written the first part of chapter 1 so I can share it with you all.

http://academycity.forumotion.co.uk/t533-fanfiction-a-certain-sixth-series#6916

The chapter is far from being completed. What I written so far is Mikoto's perspective of the moment they met for the first time. What do you think? And how would you imagine things would progress from here on?

Since the road map to get from point A, being this moment to point B which would be the start of romance seems rather blurry at the moment.

So I would appreciate a few opinions.

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